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Sunday, 31 July 2016

Iver Johnson 'FLASH CONTROL' Revolver Cylinders:

A few months back I did a post about revolver cylinder gaps and the power-loss that results from that gas leakage: "Cylinder Gap Power Loss And Gun Digests" - 31st March 2016.

- That very hot & rapidly expanding gas that leaks from the flame-front at the cylinder gap in revolvers is nasty stuff - and is on record for having caused serious injury to shooters who put their digits in the wrong place  - but I'm not going to show any meaty images here.

There was an early(ish) partial fix for this dangerous flame cutting leakage - The venerable maker Iver Johnson patented their Flash Control Cylinder in 1954.. Their cylinder was recessed at the front face to provide a rim or flange that deflected leaking gasses and any lead shavings forward and away from the shooters hands - indeed it also protected any close bystander from being 'peppered'.
But..
- You would have to have a gap in the rim to allow the cylinder to clear the barrel when unlocked .. Derr.

Nothing is ever easy eh.

The other well known answer to that cylinder gap problem is of course the Nagant 1895 revolver that was made in Russia for many years in 7.62x38mm - starting at the Tula Plant in 1898.
Empty Nagant Case (top, left) With Loaded Round.

This .32" calibre Nagant revolver gains a little muzzle velocity by eliminating this gas leakage - by having a reciprocating cylinder that pushes and seals its special cartridge deeply into the start of the revolvers barrel where it obturates.


Marty K.

P.S. Obturate in this context means (roughly) to expand or upset to fit and to seal.

Thursday, 28 July 2016

Good Gun - Bad Gun:

It seems that the NZ Police Firearms Office are still futilely trying to separate bad guns from good guns by appearance & shape:
 Might This Count as 'Non-Threatening'?

- From the minutes of Pistol NZ May 2016 Council Meeting :

o) Police requests to PNZ on firearm approval for matches we shoot  Council discussed the matter of Pistol New Zealand being involved in a firearms approval by Police based on the “Look” of a firearm. Council decided that if asked by the Police, PNZ will only confirm or deny a firearms ability to meet the rules of the matches we approve and shoot to. A statement will be sent to the Police indicating any firearm as suitable or not. Resolved: Each statement will read: “Pistol NZ does not approve or dis-approve individual types of firearms. If the firearm is compatible with the International rules of a discipline, then a shooter can use it. Based on the available information, the firearm complies with…………….match which is shot by PNZ” 

- Or it might be that they are looking for an excuse to enlarge the listing of firearms that they can BAN for any reason at all.

Surely - if the country restricts firearm use to only licenced 'Fit And Proper Persons' - what relevance can the appearance, colour, style, length of barrel, capacity, material (such as polymer), or calibre have?


None actually.

- Unless you are concerned by your image?
15th October 2007 Police Tuhoe Raids.
Black is The New Black .. Dress-up Time.

Marty K.



Wednesday, 27 July 2016

Early Caseless Ammunition Systems:

In 1968 Daisy-Heddon managed to make some 23,000 of their innovative V/L rifles that fired caseless .22" rounds - before the US BATF&E closed production down in 1969.

Daisy Outdoor Products were not licenced to manufacture arms despite their many air guns - so they lost a potential goldmine of profits.
I read about this case-less system in the 1970 GUN DIGEST the other day (- BOOKS are good - and old books are even better eh).

 The Daisy V/L is said (by some) to be the very first production arm using case-less ammunition - but I question that.


The rounds are (were) fed singly into the chamber - and the rifle, that was really an under-lever spring-piston air rifle - when discharged drove a blast of compression-heated air through a small hole at 2,000 degrees F to ignite the yellow coloured propellant and send the 29gn bullet down the barrel at 1150 feet per second.


A good working system but the shooter had to cock the spring piston for each single loaded shot. The Belgian inventor Jules Van Langenhoven  ("V/L") filed his US patent Number US3854400A in 1968 for this 'air ignition system'.. However ..
_________________________

'Rocket Ball' ammunition was patented in 1848 and was something like a hollow base Minie Ball but had the propellant packed into its hollow base - to be fired by a percussion cap..


- and the Volcanic Repeating Arms Company went one step further by including a primer / cap to make a completely self-contained round.
It worked back in 1848 - but due to the restricted volume of the bullet cavity the rounds were rather low powered - and were soon replaced by the metallic cartridge cased ammunition.

Minie Ball Rounds for Comparison.

One current case-less system is the Heckler & Koch G11:
G11 Case-less Round- "exploded" View.

I think the jury is still 'out' on whether the high temperature propellant is safe from 'cook-off' - or will the military settle for maybe a plastic case round. - Another possible development might be to use electrically fired ignition.


The 'rounds' rectangular section (as opposed to normal cylindrical) does away with wasted space when the rounds are stacked in magazines.

Interesting eh,

Marty K.

Sunday, 24 July 2016

Local Gun Show Bargains:

Saturday was a good day catching-up with mates at the Christchurch Gun Show and looking for bargains at the sales tables.

The show display tables of weaponry were great as usual - even the Christchurch Pistol Club made an effort and had an interesting spread of handguns - attracting some interest while I was there.

I found and bought a box of .457 lead balls for a good price and then - just for the hell of it I asked the stall-holder my 'silly question of the day' - "You haven't got any nipples for a Ruger Old Army have you?"... "Yes .. but only one set" !!


Nipples & Balls For The Ruger Old Army Percussion Revolver.

- I nearly broke my wrist grabbing my cash dollars to hand over before I woke-up from a dream.

- Current NZ Police and Customs regulations are making it just about impossible to import small spare parts such as springs etc. for firearms (or anything else shooting related).

____________

- Those 'eneloop' AA cells are in the middle photo as they are supposed to be the all new, all singing & dancing rechargeables - they won't always be dead when I want to use the camera .. maybe - just a little bit.

Good company, good day, excellent Chinese chicken-on-rice takeaway, - mind you I had wasted good money the previous day when I bought the latest 1911 & AR15 Sales Brochure from USA titled "Guns & Ammo Magazine". They really keep playing that same simplistic firearms industry tune - over & over .. I guess it saves having to write an original thought eh.

One conversation at the gun show voiced concerns that importation of propellants into New Zealand - especially 'black powder' is already very difficult and wickedly expensive - & likely to get worse.

Marty K.







Saturday, 23 July 2016

Terminal Ballistics Research - Kiwi Long Range Rifle Shooting:

I was hopping from site to site online - following my nose on American shooting blogs when I saw a reference to this 'Kiwi' experts site:

As  I have only just learned of this NZ (Taranaki) based enterprise and their site - I'm unable to praise them due to my not being at all good with the technology and art of hunting.

However it does seem that they have some excellent information on the topic of effectiveness on target. ballisticstudies.com 


If I were more of a rifle-man perhaps I'd have a better basis to work from eh.. but what I've read and seen so far looks great.

Take a look.. ballisticstudies.com

Marty K.

Tuesday, 19 July 2016

S&W Model 1 1/2 and Model 2 Revolvers:

I did intend to do a post on the next model revolver built by Smith & Wesson to follow the Model 1 in .22" Short .. But it got so complicated that my head jammed in my brains-unlimited pill bottle.

S&W Model 1 1/2 in .32" R/F Calibre.

It seemed like a good idea to follow these guns numerically through that Civil War era - but I found it all a bit too confusing - especially bearing in mind all those experts out there waiting to pounce on any 'misspeaks'.
Model 1.5 Second Model? Tip-Up .32" - Single Action.

.. Follow the Model 1 with the Model 2 - what could be simpler?

S&W Model 2 (from The First Delivery) (Top Hinged)
- It was a Larger Calibre Version of The Model 1 1/2.

Ahh, you noticed that Model 1 1/2 up there above that Model 2 .. hmm - it seems that the Model 1 1/2 was made from 1865 onwards as an enlarged Model 1 in .32" rim-fire.. more than 223,000 built.
- Now it appears that there were three flavours of the '1 1/2' - the first two were tip-up models and the third version was a 'top-break'  known as the 'Model 1 1/2 Single Action Revolver' .

S&W Model 2 4th Model "Double Action" in .38" Calibre.

- But that Model 2 is different from the other Model 2 eh - it's got a trigger guard and hinges down from a 'bottom-hinge' as a "Top Break" .. well it's a 4th Model Model 2 Double Action. - Maybe

Model 2 'Baby Russian' in .38" Calibre.

Yup - that's another flavour Model 2 - known as a 'Baby Russian'.

Here comes another one - just like the other one ..

NO - that's a three pin top strap - not a two-pin Model 2 ..

It seems that from 1876 there were 5 iterations of the Model 2 Double Action in .32" Calibre and 5 further iterations of it in .38" calibre .. Then there was the "Perfected Model" ...

So I give up. - Too many models and variations - and that's without trying to record the dates and calibres  - both .32" and .38" Rim fire - and then .32" and .38" S&W (centre-fire).

But let it be said - just like the Model 1 .22" Rim Fire that's come all the way through history to us
- The .32" S&W has also travelled a long way since it's 1878 debut in the S&W Model 1 1/2.

- First was the .32 S&W (Short) then .32 S&W Long followed by the lengthened again .32" H&R Magnum only to be further lengthened, strengthened and developed into the high pressure 327 Federal Magnum.
327 Federal Magnum - Energy Up There With 357 Magnum
- But Less Recoil & More Capacity


In the April 2008 issue of the NRA's American Rifleman magazine, Field Editor Bryce Towsley summed up his review of the 327 Federal Magnum cartridge as follows:
"The .327 offers more 'real-world' energy than the .357 Mag., (at least in my test), better penetration and one more shot per gun load. It does all this with substantially less recoil and noticeably less muzzle blast than the .357 Mag."
 - is that a fourth 'iteration' for that .32" rimmed centre-fire cartridge? (Sure - If you ignore the .32 Merwin & Hulbert cartridge eh). - what a good word that 'iteration' is.


If I had the time & money and patience to start collecting again - I'd certainly be tempted to look at those early "Perfected Model" and other Model 2 - Fourth Model Double-Action, Top Break guns that were made in calibres certainly including .32" and .38" S&W.
___________________

Meanwhile - I'm seriously (repeatedly) trying to get my pinkies on a four inch barrelled Ruger SP101 in 327 Federal Magnum. - I have bought the dies (two sets), new .32" brass in various iterations - various projectiles and suitable powder - but importation of my new gun ex USA is progressing something like an aged blind 3 legged turtle with a bad back climbing a steep and rocky shore into a head-wind while being taunted by stone throwing youths.. so many obstacles - will it get there?
The pleasures of living in a "far-flung land"

Life IS good,

Marty K.

P.S: Todays joke: Na - I've censored it.

Saturday, 16 July 2016

Hickok45 - Shooting The Breeze #12. Thank You:

He's been 'crook' but now is back ..

I just watched  #12 Shooting The Breeze and I feel a need to say 'Thank You' to hickok45 for all his great videos about guns and shooting - he is a fine representative voice for all law-abiding gun nuts and his video reviews are so informative and entertaining.
#12 - like all the previous breezes, is worth watching for its common sense but he was looking a little pale after his surgery.

- While I was sitting at the screen I also watched his Ruger LCR .327 Federal Magnum review on YouTube. That is a serious shooting combination in a small pocket piece eh.

Marty K.

Thursday, 14 July 2016

Christchurch GUN SHOW 23 July:

SATURDAY 23 JULY:

Gun Show/Arms and Militaria


Riccarton Park Function Centre (Ricccarton Raceway)

Saturday 23 July

Following our very successful ninth show in 2015 (including the presentation of the Best Display Robin Rapley Memorial Trophy) we are proud to announce that the next Mainland Arms and Militaria Gun Show Special Features are a WW100 anniversary- trench warfare display and an engraving display by internationally renowned engraver Andrew Biggs.

Despite the earthquakes in ChCh sellers, collectors and the general public attended the 2015 show in record numbers - a real indication of their resilience and desire to carry on with what matters in their lives. Many stating "I was so impressed by the displays I needed more time to see them all so I had to come back later in the day".

Many children (including some big kids) had a go at bayonet fighting, stripping Machine Guns and having a ’sword fight’ with a Knight in shining armour. With increasing public interest in celebrating 100 years since WWI significant displays of Signalling Equipment, the NZ Mounted Rifles mannequin horse with saddle equipment and Hotchkiss Machine Gun and, personal items and equipment from Gallipoli Campaign attracted much attention.

For this our 10th Show many world-class displays of items from the Boer War, WW1, WW2 and the Vietnam era including a complete RFC mannequin display, a Galloping Maxim Machine Gun and the Hotchkiss Machine Gun plus equipment have been confirmed along with sales tables and collectors displays of firearms, ammunition, antiques, medals, badges, uniforms, collectables, swords, bayonets, and books. Also on display will be several military vehicles, machine gun stripping and a medieval camp.
Date(s): Saturday 23 Jul
Time: 9.00am to 4.00pm
Venue: Riccarton Park Function Centre
Official Website: Click here
Pricing: Adults $10.00. School aged children with an Adult and or Vietnam (or earlier) veterans free
Event Categories: Exhibitions

_________________________________

The Model 1 - S&Ws' First Revolver Was A .22":


One year before the first transatlantic telegraph cable was laid and connected under the ocean that separates Britain from USA (in 1858 - sadly it only worked for three weeks!) - Smith & Wesson brought-out their very first metallic cartridge revolver - chambered for a .22" Rim-fire.. known for ever after as the Model 1 (1857).


Now - all of you who may be concerned about 'Knock Down Power' please note that this gun and its black-powder short .22" rim-fire cartridge - called then 'The Number One Cartridge' - was to be very popular with soldiers on both sides in the American Civil War. - So much so that the S&W company had to open a new larger factory in an effort to catch up with production demand.

This .22" round using a 29 or 30 grain bullet was specifically designed for self defence - and most references say that its small pinch of black powder weighed 4 grains - but I believe it was more likely below 3 grains and drove its small pills at between only 3 / 400 feet per second:
Ref: Mike Cumpston, GUNS Magazine .."In The Beginning There Was The Smith & Wesson Model 1 in .."

- So successful was this revolver (and its cartridge) that many rival rogue makers set out to make copies - resulting in breech of patent court cases and royalty awards.

Third Issue Model 1 S&W Open for Loading.

Later (in 1860) S&W set about developing a larger (longer) and more powerful .22" rim-fire cartridge that became known as the 22 Long.

Shhh now - but grit your teeth and repeat after me - The first S&W SIXGUN was a seven shot .22rf.


Yes - the worlds first breech loading revolver - built by Horace Smith & Daniel Wesson with twenty five workers on the second floor above a stable on Market Street, Springfield Massachusetts - was a .22" built to fill the needs of an emotional and bitter slavery war raging in the Kansas Territory - that soon was to develop into the American Civil War.

That first Model 1 had a nickel plated brass frame and a blued tip-up barrel that hinged from the top strap. At around 6.5 inches overall length depending on the grip design - they were built as pocket-pistols for folk needing protection.

That .22" Rim-fire cartridge has never really stalled as it developed and has come down through time to us as the affordable, effective, and easily shot .22" Long Rifle.

It's probably worth remembering that those old black powder rim-fires likely worked better .. well maybe more reliably than our modern smokeless versions - because although the black powder is an inefficient propellant - it was easier to ignite than the smokeless stuff.

If you are going to carry your loaded Number One in your back pocket - it will be best if you load beans into six chambers only and then carefully lower the hammer onto that empty chamber - as there isn't any trigger guard or 'safety'..

Marty K.

P.S. That Mike Cumpston referenced above is author of two excellent books .. "PERCUSSION REVOLVERS" & "Percussion Pistols And Revolvers" (with Johny Bates).













Tuesday, 12 July 2016

Gun Users Becoming An Oppressed Minority:

A dictionary definition of OPPRESSED is: To be oppressed is to be exploited or systematically harmed by others. People who have their freedom restricted are oppressed.

A MINORITY is: A group in society distinguished from, and less dominant than, the more numerous majority,  a racial, ethnic, religious, or social subdivision of a society that is subordinate to the dominant group in political, financial or social power.
______________________________

Licenced Firearms Owners in New Zealand are a social subdivision of society that are distinguished by having proved that they are 'FIT AND PROPER PERSONS TO POSSESS FIREARMS'.
There are in any society only a percentage of individuals who can provide evidence and independent witnesses to support the history of their legal and medical records stating that they are "fit & proper".

The following persons are specifically excluded by The Police Arms Code from having a Firearms Licence - considered not to be Fit and Proper:

People who have:
. a history of violence or
. repeated involvement with drugs or
. been irresponsible with alcohol or
. a personal or social relationship with people who may be deemed to be unsuitable to obtain access to firearms or
. indicates an intent to use firearms for self defence

- Those identified as fit and proper persons having been charged for applying for a Firearms Licence (& all subsequent endorsements) - the applicants close family & 'referees' are then interviewed - and their home inspected to ensure that this residential property has been fitted with Police approved security and is suitable for any firearm to be secured from burglary by uncontrolled criminals.

- This minority of worthy law-abiding licenced citizens is then subject to regular police inspections and checks. - If known convicted criminals, parolees and drug users were to be subjected to a similar regime of surveillance - one might truly expect the nations crime levels to drop.

The two concurrent groups of police and politicians now investigating firearms use in NZ are both signalling changes are coming that will further restrict and impose additional costs and requirements on licensed shooters - despite these fit & proper persons not being the problem..

But of-course - the 250,000 registered law abiding 'fit & proper' shooters are an identified minority group in society that present as 'low hanging fruit' - being visible targets for politically motivated action.

- Remember 'Dawn Raids' ?

Marty K.



Saturday, 9 July 2016

Two Current Investigations Will Change Our Gun Laws:

 Radio New Zealand is today reporting that The NZ Firearms Review is likely to lead to law changes.

An internal review of how the police administer and monitor firearms is likely to lead to changes in the law, including allowing people to apply for a gun licence online.  ??  Didn't a TV3 'journalist' recently repeatedly forge signatures and licence numbers to illegally obtain a rifle?

The review was being carried out in parallel to the Parliamentary Select Committee Inquiry into illegal gun possession following the shooting of four police officers in Kawerau and the discovery of un-licenced firearms in an Auckland 'drugs raid' earlier this year.
Police national manager for police response and operations Superintendent Chris Scahill said the Firearms Review Project would not report its findings until next year.

More than 1.2 million firearms are thought to be currently held by about 250,000 licensed firearms holders.
"This is a massive project for us and we will deliver conclusions of the review in 2017 but we will also be putting up a number of suggested modifications or improvements to the Arms Act," Mr Scahill said.

One of the suggestions the police would be making was to encourage more people to apply for a firearms licence online using the government's secure login service RealMe.
"We would be encouraging and incorporating that process into our licensing system so that people are not having to fill out manual forms, and manual forms are not being processed, so we have a full electronic end to end solution," Mr Scahill said.. Sounds like cost cutting to me.

The Police Association believed both the Parliamentary inquiry and the police internal review would find that more funding was needed to administer and monitor firearm use.

Police Association president Greg O'Connor said monitoring of firearms had been underfunded and not given enough priority for years.
"The policing of the whole Arms Act, the whole arms industry by police has been under-resourced and under-focused for some time.

"I would be very surprised if the recommendations coming out of both the select committee and the internal review don't result in recommendations for more resource" Mr O'Connor said.

Superintendent Scahill disagreed the current system was underfunded.

"We have had, in general, a largely fit for purpose administration framework and if I compare us to other countries around the world I think we stand pretty well," he said.
"Is there opportunity for improvement? Of course there is. We continuously try to improve what we're doing but largely, I do believe the framework is fit for purpose and particularly with that focus on ensuring that fit and proper persons obtain licenses."

- Stand by for a 'double hit' calling for higher costs, more expensive home security (- to keep out the crooks) and more restrictions and more licence rules for law abiding shooters.

Have you joined COLFO and/or Sporting Shooters New Zealand ?  Did you get your club to sign-up as a supporting member organisation ?
Are you ready for all semi-auto rifles including .22"s to be classified as Restricted E-Cat Weapons ? - Have you got $1,000 plus ready to buy and install a certified E-Cat safe in your home to police regulations?

NZ POLICE RECORDS SAY THAT LESS THAN 0.5% OF TOTAL CRIME IN NZ OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS INVOLVED FIREARMS. - PUT ANOTHER WAY .. MORE THAN 99.5% of NZ CRIME DOES NOT INVOLVE GUNS.

- Can you define the term 'An Oppressed Minority' ?

Marty K.


Wild Boar in New Zealand

I recently saw this picture of a Chatham Islands pig on US site 'All Outdoors'. The only information they had was that the pig weighed 292 pounds (132.5 kilos) when photographed back in 2013.

I haven't found any extra information about that particular pig - but I'm thinking it will have fed a few hungry mouths eh.

Wild Boar can weigh up to 200 kilo - 440 lbs. and they are wide spread throughout in the NZ bush and farmland where they are often hunted on foot with dogs.

Wild Boar in New Zealand are generally known as "Captain Cookers" because live pigs are recorded as being given to Maori tribes by Captain Cook on his explorations here as far back as 1770 (although a French ships Captain is recorded as first gifting pigs a year earlier - so they should be called "Captain Jean Francois Marie de Suvilles".

Sus Scrofa is so successful at finding plenty of food here - destroying crops and killing new born lambs - that by the 1930s a Government bounty was being offered of three rounds of ammunition or a shilling for every pig snout with its tail.

In 1947 it was recorded that there were estimated to be 123 wild pigs per every square kilometre.

New Zealand pig hunting is "hard work" hunting on foot through steep bush country with tough pig dogs specially bred and trained to the work .. as are too both the men and women hunters.
Those tusks mean that a Captain Cooker can fight back and cause plenty of damage:

I have shot wild pigs a fair bit in outback Australia - but the way we did it was covering outback property fence-lines and billabongs in comfort from a Toyota 4WD (using GPS and air-con.) from tracks in wide open country - with only a little foot chasing if a mob went into the bush. - I've also heard of Aussie hunting parties shooting from the air while using helicopters to chase the pig mobs.

 That kiwi-style on foot with dogs and maybe a knife to stick the bailed porker is way too tough for me.

Marty K.

P.S: 'Kunekune' pigs are also found here in New Zealand and are believed to have been brought here by American whalers as 'Polish-Chinese' pigs. - Kune means "fat and round" in Maori and these pigs are wattled - I read that the only other pig breed having wattles is the Polish breed.

M.K.

Wednesday, 6 July 2016

Ruger Old Army: 45th Anniversary of a Forty-Five:

Next year will be Forty-Five years since the first Ruger 'Old Army' came to market. - That might be a great opportunity for Sturm Ruger to come out and declare that their 44" Cap'n'Ball was in fact a .45" and to celebrate by offering a new 45th Anniversary Model 45" Smoke-Stick.
An Early Brass Framed Ruger Old Army:

Ruger could make special 'anniversary models' with 'Eagle' stocks and a British version with 'Union Jack' stocks (I think that properly licenced UK target shooters are still permitted black powder revolvers for target shooting).

The *New*  Old Army might be a sleek more compact, stainless steel percussion revolver, complete with their transfer bar safety mechanism looking something like their 'Vaquero' - and maybe complete with a 45 Colt conversion cylinder.
Vaquero
.. many of those original Old Armies will be aging fast and ready for retirement:

They might even offer it in both .45" and .36"/38" (.357") ball calibre - Nobody ever listens to me anyway eh ..

Marty K.

Monday, 4 July 2016

FBI Choose 9mm Glocks:

This Report came from Outdoorhub 1st July:

In a notice put up on a government website, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) indicated that it has chosen 9mm Glocks for its new line of service handguns. According to the notice - the contract could go as high as $85 million for the Austrian gun maker, which also has a factory in Smyrna, Georgia.
“The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is issuing an unrestricted solicitation for various 9mm Luger pistols and all associated replacement parts with the intent of making single award of a fixed price indefinite-delivery indefinite-quantity (IDIQ) contract,” the FBI’s procurement arm stated.
The agency first announced in 2014 that it will be ditching its iconic .40 S&W round and returning to 9×19.

In 2015, the FBI submitted a new request for proposal (RFP), which sought both a new compact pistol capable of holding 14 rounds, and a new full-size handgun with a capacity of at least 16 rounds. The contract reportedly will also be responsible for equipping up to a dozen federal agencies, including the Drug Enforcement Agency; the U.S. Marshalls; the Department of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms; the Capitol Police; the Postal Service; the Park Police; and the Department of Defence.

As many expected, Glock surfaced as the prime contender for the government contract. Expert speculation once leaned toward the SIG Sauer P320, but the agency ultimately decided to go with a gun maker it was already very familiar with. The Glock 22, chambered in .40 S&W, has been the FBI service pistol since 1997."

Performance design of Law Enforcement 9mm ammunition has advanced so well in recent years that the difference between 9x19mm, .40"S&W, and the 45"ACP has been largely discounted.

Personally - I went with the G17 twenty six years ago - & the G20 10mm (Major Power Factor) for IPSC competition as soon as it was developed.

Martin K.

Sunday, 3 July 2016

A 'Better 9MM' (-8MM?) - or the 5.7x28mm?:

Why is the .32 ACP (32 Auto) cartridge also known as the 7.65 x17mm SR Browning ? - Surely the .32 bullet that variously measures .311" - .314" diameter is truly an 8mm.

1mm = 0.03937 inches - so 8mm = 0.31496" (see above)

Why is the old British .303" Round (actually also an 8 mm) not called an 8mm? -I dunno (politics? - but the 7.62x39 Russian is the same diameter bullet .. actually 7.92mm or .312" ) - some European 8mm rounds use bullets sized up to .324".  ** I've just read that in Canada the .303" round (still in use in  No.4 Mk1* Enfields by volunteer units like The Rangers) is known as the 7.7x56mmR .

Yes - it is a mess..

Now when NATO were looking for a 'better 9mm' they got the FN 5.7x28 - a bottle nosed centre-fire .22".  - why didn't they opt for an 8mm/32" calibre version of a short .300 Blackout cartridge (.308") aka 7.62x35mm and call it '8x28mm NATO' ?
300BLK Could be Shortened to say, 28mm to give an 8x28 MM ?
('7.62 or 7.92 x28' if you must).

I'm more comfortable with old English inches than centimetres and millimetres but why complicate things when there's a clearer, simpler way? - Many of what are commonly called '30 Cal' cartridges are properly closer to .32"/8mm.
My 'origami' 8x28  NATO (32 Calibre) 300BLK.
- a sort of stretched high pressure 32 NAA?

Bottleneck cartridges do feed very well into gun chambers - Wouldn't that work & impress better in a side-arm than a "centre-fire .22" ?
FN 5.7x28

Marty K.